Bearing Drift…Adrift
March 17, 2011 // 61 Comments
By Kurt Feigel
I’ve been following Bearing Drift and their political commentary for some time. It used to be a fairly good conservative site. Lately it would seem it’s transitioned from Conservatism to Republicanism.
Bearing Drift says about it’s name:
Most navigation rules state that the best decision with constant bearing and decreasing range is to alter course to starboard – the right! If the ship of state is going to crash, move right, you can’t go wrong!
I can’t disagree with this. We are crashing and need to alter course. The problem is; that conservatism is the needed course not republicanism.
If you look at the contributors to Bearing Drift you’ll notice what proud republicans they are. Some of them even run political consulting firms and I’d assume don’t work for Democrats. If you do some searches over at VPAP you’d see they combined have donated more than 10k to Republican candidates.
Look at these excerpts from the BD contributors page:
J.R. Hoeft:
He has served on the Executive Committee of the Republican Party of Chesapeake and the Central Committee of the Republican Party of Virginia.
Shaun Kenney:
Shaun Kenney is the Vice-Chairman of the Fluvanna County Board of Supervisors, the former Communications Director for the Republican Party of Virginia…
D.J. Spiker:
D.J. believes in the sanctity of the Republican Party and its values and creed…aims to bring basic common sense principles and voice to and for the Republican Party.
Chris Obenshain:
Chris Obenshain has been involved in Republican politics literally since the womb…Chairman of the Roanoke Area Young Republicans chapter.
Jane Dudley:
…political photography as it exists on the right, she decided to start making better images, to document Virginia Republicans and to inspire them to make more of an effort to put a fine face on their fine ideas.
De Civitate Hominis (“concerning the city of man”):
…has been active at various levels of Republican politics since 1994…
Jason Kenney:
…providing online fundraising for Republican candidates in Virginia, and co-founder of K6 Consulting…
Brian W. Schoeneman:
…veteran political professional and Republican activist, with almost a decade of lobbying, speechwriting and public policy experience…
There is nothing nefarious that I can see going on over at BD. So they are Loyal Republicans. So they support the Establishment. So they donate fat cash to the candidates. Good for them. It’s not as if they are pretending they are anything but Republicans. The problem I have is that people can get confused. Republican has become synonymous with Conservative but it is vastly different.
There is also nothing wrong with being a Republican. I’ve worked on campaigns for Republican candidates. I myself am a dues paying member of the Campbell County Republican party. But I see the party as a means to advancing conservatism. Where as many Republicans see conservatism as a means to advancing the party. While hard “R” voters would vote for Lucifer if he was running as a Republican, guys like me and many other Tea Party voters would not. We demand that the party that claims to venerate the principles of our nations founding stand for them.
We are a “Republic” and it is time the the Republican party remembered this.
We are told we must “support the Republican candidate” but, when WE THE PEOPLE choose a candidate the party doesn’t like, the establishment stabs them in the back…and the people in the process.
I have often taken the RPV to task on this very thing at my 5th district blog and usually when I do my local unit chairman gets 10 to 20 phone calls from “good loyal republicans” pleading with him to have me “tone down the rhetoric”. This being code for “Toe The line!” As if I in any way work for the party.
Bearing Drift is adrift in a sea of psudo-conservatism. Anything short of a 180 degree turn will only result in out nation sinking and the ship of state being smashed against the rocks. Sadly some of us wonder if that isn’t their intent.
Their support for George Allen isn’t the 180 degree turn we need. and their hatred of Jamie Radtke isn’t helping things either.
Red State Virginia will provide the conservative voice that has been lacking here in Virginia. Let the gnashing of teeth begin.
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Just to be clear… most of that $10K? Was to my race in 2005 against a tax-hiking Republican. One in which Jamie Radtke, Steve Waters, and a host of conservatives (who were in the trenches long before the Tea Party made it popular to stand up to the Establishment) supported — and came within 383 votes of bumping off a long-time incumbent.
Short version: Welcome to the fight. Where the hell have you been?
Welcome to the movement… but keep in mind that just because we’ve been in the game longer, it doesn’t mean that we’re establishment Republicans anymore than say, Ken Cuccinelli is an “establishment” Republican.
Beyond that — Bearing Drift hasn’t endorsed a soul. Most of the people you mentioned here are recognized as boat-rockers. Of course, I noticed that Bob Marshall somehow didn’t pass muster as a conservative… is he too now an establishment Republican?
Now if this is a bunch of libertarians trying to hijack the Tea Party, by all means go for it and see what happens. But I seriously doubt Jamie is going to tolerate the pro-abortion, drug legalization, pro-gay marriage line. Unless you have something to tell us?
You may not have endorsed any candidates yet. I’ve no doubt if you do that George Allen will be the pic of BD.
Bob McD – Leaning Left
Bill Bolling – RINO
Ken Cuccinelli – Solid (though there were lots of people in the establishment that were pissed when he ran – They didn’t have the chance to stab him in the back and support someone else though. )
Libertarians taking over the TP? Not likely. Most of the hard “L’ voters left because they were upset that we supported Republican candidates and not some fringe indy runner.
I didn’t mention marshall because he isn’t running (hopefully it will stay that way) however, the establishment loves a crowded field. They get to jam us up with their pic.
What the establishment fails to grasp is that a G A win in the primary could lead to a loss in the General. We refuse to support double talking snake oil salesman any more.
I’m sure you disagree. After all it was you that said “Feda Morton was the only pro life candidate” when we were at lunch after Stanley was elected. It was crazy then…still is.
“only”? really?
Actually I was ribbing you pretty hard… there were a lot of pro-life candidates. Even the kid next to you got the joke… but ah well.
Marshall is running. Bishop Jackson is a great conservative I have known for years. Both of those guys are anti-establishment. Cuccinelli is a great conservative and has been since he got started. Tossing all three of those guys out for the sake of a political campaign? Geez…
I’ve never heard anyone point at Bob Marshall and call him an establishment type until just now. Ouch.
Read carefully shaun. Here is what I said “I didn’t mention marshall because he isn’t running (hopefully it will stay that way) however, the establishment loves a crowded field.”
Marshall isn’t running and I hope he doesn’t BECAUSE the establishment loves a crowded field. Not saying Marshall is establishment…I’d have to have been in cryo stasis to jump to that conclusion. even then i’d be way off.
I want a head to head race. The RPV and GOP would love to get a bunch of guys/gals in this race…worked in the 5th.
You talk to the Marshall crowd yet? Bob’s in… that’ll make four.
Libertarians trying to hijack the tea party? Last time I checked the tea party does in fact share a lot of libertarian values. After all the government would be making abortion and drugs state issues if they were to follow that little old thing called a constitution.
Republican is often just a name for a conservative who likes things like individual liberty when it matches up with his or her own religious ideology. And even that is often a lie!That kind of psudo-conservative approach to government is what got us in this mess of debt and government over-reach to begin with.
Last time I checked the tea party is the loud libertarian leaning conservative answer to the foolishness of the modern big government GOP.
No hijacking required!
The Tea Party has nothing to do with libertarianism. If you don’t get that, you don’t get the Tea Party.
sorry shaun YOU don’t get the Tea Party.
Kurt, you’ve been totally absent from Virginia politics, and your only notable contribution to the discourse was a noose to elected politicians in Washington…
Is that a Tea Party value? Because I can assure you that Jamie (a) isn’t aware of your background and (b) will repudiate your tactics…
Shaun, how many tea party groups have asked you to speak at their events?
Shaun.. last time I checked I am a member of the tea party movement. I didn’t join the movement, the movement joined me!
Who are you, again? Which campaign did you work for?
I am a Libertarian. I also view myself as part of the Tea Party movement. I attended Tea Party events in Virginia Beach, Norfolk, Chesapeake, and Jamie Radtke’s Tea Party Convention in Richmond. Both Karen and Jamie have done one heck of a job.
I am a Libertarian first. I see no reason to hijack the Tea Party. That would defeat the purpose! It would be self-defeating and destroy our ability to network with other fiscally conservative/small government groups. The Tea Party is a vehicle where a coalition of multpile different groups can cooperate to defeat fiscal suicide and overly intrusive government. I LOVE attending the same events with the Religious Right. I love the fact that we can stand with them, Ron Paul Republicans, and other fiscally conservative Republicans and oppose Obamacare, Cap & Trade, and hyper spending with one united voice.
Yes, a lot of Tea Party values mirror ones that Libertarians hold dear. Do we want to network and work alongside the Tea Party and guys like Cuccinelli? Absolutely!!!! I am definitely supporting Jamie Radtke. I like Bob Marshall and I have been pleasantly surprised by Gov. McDonnell. During his tenure as AG my opinion of him was highly negative. I don’t know enough about Bolling, but what little I do isn’t RINO to me.
Was I ticked off that the Tea Party went Rigell? Well, yes. That didn’t mean I left. I witheld my vote on that race. Others did support Golden, but the ones I know still work with Tea Partiers.
I love what the Tea Party is all about. I don’t have to agree on everything with a Tea Party Republican. Probably why I really like Radtke, Marshall, and Cuccinelli. All that fondness for the Tea Party aside, hijacking it would be counterproductive.
” If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. ”
Ronald Reagan Reason Magazine 1975.
Don’t you just love the so called “Reagan Conservatives”, who just don’t know what the hell they are talking about
Hey, I just went to Radtkeforsenate.com and got redirected here…..
I just went to GeorgeAllenForSenate.com and was redirected to bearing drift…
Ditto… any viewpoint that slams Allen *and* Marshall as establishment Republicans is either nuts or looking for work.
Shaun you are either mentally deranged or you didn’t read my last comment to you.
I didn’t slam Mashall as establishment. And if you think that Allen isn’t Establishment then you are the one who is nuts.
I agree with Britt. Hijacking a train that’s already going where you’re going is pretty stupid. All you really have to do is ride along.
As for the author of this hit piece. …If Allen isn’t far right enough, and Bolling isn’t far right enough….. let’s just say that you let the cat out of the bag. In a bif happy family, there are always the CRAZY COUSINS that everybody acknowledges and moves on.
And I also think Sean makes an excellent point. Where the hell HAVE you been? I applaud the moment when anyone gets off the couch and gets involved. But for some of us, that moment was a decade or two back. You need to familiarize yourself with the procedure and the actual chances of election. Radtke has ZERO chance of winning the race for Senate. Allen has EVERY chance of winning it…with the right opponent.
another establishment hack…oh great.
Where have I been. I’ve been hands on working to get the Tea Party in Virginia and in Lynchburg off the ground. I’ve been helping coordinate people in the 5th district to go door to door and press for Robert Hurt (even though he wasn’t my 1st choice) would you do that? Doubtful as most establishment hacks stab the PEOPLE in the back in order to advance “R”epublican only (reach across the aisle moderated tone) politics.
Oh and the Lynchburg Tea Party made calls, went door to door, manned the polls for BILL STANLEY and got him elected too.
I’ll repeat what I said and will keep saying. The Tea Party is done carrying the water for the establishment. George Allen wins and the Democrats will likely end up with 6 more years in control of that Senate seat.
Hmm, this article is certainly provocative. With all due respect, it reminds me a bit of the prison mentality. Find the biggest guy on the block (in the VA conservative blogging world, Bearing Drift) and then pick a fight with him to establish yourself.
There is no doubt in my mind that Bearing Drift provides much in the way of valuable news and commentary. Are they the only conservative voice out there? Of course not. Do I always agree with them? Heck no. But, Virginia is blessed with a multitude of differing conservative voices.
But is Bearing Drift conservative? I would say yes. Like it or not, the Republican Party is the primary political outlet for advancing the conservative agenda. We each have our own sliding scale of what we will or will not accept in a politician. Admittedly, some times the GOP and our leaders screw up royal. I believe the proper response for conservatives is that we must hold these people’s feet to the fire (though I would also argue that in general we are blessed that our state party and many of our legislators are far better than in many others).
Heck, I’m proud to say that worked for the RPV in the past and maybe one day I’ll get the chance to do so again. Does that mean I’m an establishment Republican too? Is the Virginia Conservative nothing more than party mouthpiece? Heaven forbid. I’ll tell you that I’ve gotten my share of being raked over the coals by “the establishment” for my continuing support of Dr. Paul.
I look forward to reading more of your posts given your previous work on the 5th District Watchdog site. I just hope that my comments here won’t put me on any sort of enemies list.
Let me close with two thoughts that might just piss off all parties: 1. There is not one monolithic voice at BD and, like them or hate them, they do advance political dialogue and push the conservative movement forward. 2. There are elements of libertarianism within the Tea Party movement.
Thanks!
Any friend of Ron Paul is a friend of mine.
I love Ron Paul!!!!
I guess that makes us friends, Kurt.
Kurt, I’m just curious if you’re on Jaime’s payroll…..and if this isn’t really Jon’s brainchild?
I am not on Jamie’s payroll. I did some work about 4 months ago to get her a temporary website till she could bring in the big guys…I think that launches this weekend…but haven’t done anything since.
As Bearing Drift’s RINO-in-Chief, I appreciate the attacks. Tells me we’re doing something right.
Here’s something interesting. Referring to Bearing Drift as “Bearing Adrift” or using some iteration of the adrift line is the go-to attack from Ben Tribbett of Not Larry Sabato and Lowell Feld of Blue Virginia – the two largest liberal blogs in the Commonwealth. Interesting.
In any event, good luck with getting the site going, and hopefully you won’t have to fend off any lawsuits from http://www.vared.org
Also, thanks for not linking to NOVA Common Sense. Helps our credibility.
This blog is named after the infamous USA Today map of red states and blue states after the 2000 presidential election.
I’m sure I’m remembering it correctly when I say that “RED STATES” are Republican states.
It’s a bit ironic, then, that the founder of the RedStateVirginia blog takes it as his first duty to slam another blog for being too closely identified with the Republican party, isn’t it?
You are correct. Red states indicate controlled by Republicans. Blue by Democrats. Though I think they did that to confuse the voters. Red was historically the color of the communists.
Though some libertarians would argue that the past 10 years of “republicanism” was nothing more than spend happy liberalism.
Around 50% to 60% of the American voters would consider themselves “Conservative” NOT “Republican”. The Republican party is not synonymous with “conservatism” It should be.
I think you missed the point of the attack. I was not attacking them for being conservative. But for being establishment. The establishment brought us such gems as John McCain, Mitt Romney, and a host of other so called conservatives. I was illustrating the need for an alternate voice. I hope BD will move more to the right. Moving to the middle…moderating tone…reaching across the aisle…is moving to the left.
I was in the trenches before being in the trenches was cool. My hands have been dirty, I have been in the trenches… working… with my hands getting dirty. Where were you? And don’t say working, because you can only work if your hands are getting dirty, in the trenches. Real jobs are in the trenches, not working for companies. Anybody who has not been in the trenches needs to shut up and listen to me, because I have been in the trenches. You were in school? Then shut up and listen to me, I have been in the trenches… with all the other guys that have been in the trenches. You go to school, get an internship in the trenches, get dirty, work in the trenches and then get your trenches certification so that you can tell people how you were in the trenches and they weren’t. Being in the trenches makes you dirty, makes you smarter, makes you better, makes you superior to those that aren’t in the trenches.
too funny!
“Here’s something interesting. Referring to Bearing Drift as “Bearing Adrift” or using some iteration of the adrift line is the go-to attack from Ben Tribbett of Not Larry Sabato and Lowell Feld of Blue Virginia – the two largest liberal blogs in the Commonwealth. Interesting.”
Funny how this guy immediately sees similarities between you and liberals but can’t even tell that his own hatchet man SK used info directly from a liberal blog to attack you. Interesting.
Both quotes from Shaun Kenney
“Who are you, again? Which campaign did you work for?”
“Short version: Welcome to the fight. Where the hell have you been?”
At 32 years of age your lack of tack is refreshing, you are everything in the Republican Party I dislike!
Who am I? I was in the “trenches” when you were in diapers! Maybe those huggies were a little tight on you.
Who am I? I was in Harm’s Way before I even knew it! FYI My Father was stationed in Berlin Germany during the building of the Berlin Wall and Cuban Missile Crisis. During the crisis we had Russian tanks just blocks from our apartment. I do remember the machine gun fire, even when the Russians were telling the East Germans that Americans were the Fascists they risked their lives for freedom. I do remember the Berlin Wall being built.
Who am I? I was involved with Ronald Reagan’s re-election! I couldn’t work in politics before because I was in the Air Force serving in the White House. While I was in the Air Force you were in those tight huggies!
Who am I? I got disgusted with Republican Politics after working for Stan Parris and seeing him pocket hundreds of thousands of donated dollars and left us with a moron, that’s James Moron 8th Va. District. Before you say, no it didn’t happen that way there are laws against that; check when the law was created!
Who am I? When you were in elementary school I was into single issue groups fighting for Liberty!
Who am I? I was working for the U.S. Government unable to get to close to politics because of the Hatch Act!
Who am I? Now after working for the Federal Government over thirty years; with what I’ve seen with both parties, I am working within the Republican Party to help rid our Governments at all levels of arrogant people like you!
Who am I? I’m someone that tries to persuade folks to join the Party, and then they read blogs like yours and it confirms their suspicions and leave. When our Government either crashes or is sold to the highest bidder, don’t you dare, not one word from you! Just go hide in the hills and hope nobody recognizes you.
Who am I? A Virginian, American, and Veteran that hates public servants like you, acting like our Master!
Who am I?
Colonel Wm. Larry Bethea, Jr.
And that is the Cardinal Crossing SMACK DOWN! Nice!
Nice job Larry. Thank you for your service BTW
Yea, I’m Cardinal Crossing, thanks and your welcome!
Can you imagine what Ronald Reagan would say to the likes of Shaun Kenney? I can! I saw a few people dragged into President Reagan’s wood shed it wasn’t pretty! Shaun may not understand the comment; the wood shed is where Children got spanked back in the good old days.
I can. He’d thank Shaun for his public service and welcome him as a fellow Republican.
If you think he would do anything else, you don’t know Reagan.
@Brian
I don’t know you but I worked inside the Reagan Administration. So how would you know President Reagan would thank the likes of Shaun and his rants?
BTW I saw the Reagan’s Ranch and yes he had a wood shed there! I received the Presidential Service Award for my Service at the White House. When you wake up the President in the middle of the night, you learn something about them! Ronald Reagan had character unlike Shaun Kenney.
Ah Brian, now I know you:
“Brian W. Schoeneman is a veteran Republican political professional and lobbyist. He currently serves as legislative and political director for the Seafarers International Union of North America (AFL-CIO), the nation’s largest maritime labor union, representing merchant mariners in the deep sea, inland and Great Lakes trades.
He has previously served as special assistant and senior speechwriter to Bush Administration Secretary of Labor Elaine L. Chao, from 2008-2009. In that capacity, he served as the Secretary’s lead liaison to organized labor and served as a member of the senior staff.”
Worked in the Labor Department under the Bush Administration, Lobbist for the AFL-CIO, nice resume, very nice. Did you help disarm our merchant mariners?
Larry, i work every day to help create and protect the jobs, livelihood and lives of our merchant mariners. Disarm them? No, I work to keep them safe and working. I was on the Hill advocating for stronger anti-piracy measures today alone.
Ronald Reagan was the president of a labor union long before he was President of the United States. He came up with the 11th Commandment, which may not mean anything to the bloggers on this site who are not Republicans but it means something to me. And while I never had the privilege, like you, of meeting the man, I am confident that he wouldn’t be as quick to judge Shaun, me or any of the rest of us in the Republican party who are trying to carry on the tradition he gave us.
If you think you can know a man because you googled his bio, you are doing both yourself and him a disservice.
Brian, I just knew the 11th Commandment was coming, the “Establishment” loves to take that out of context! Why would Ronald Reagan run for President against the republican incumbent? Maybe you should look at Shauns rants during the primaries last year or even above.
I didn’t google your bio, I clicked on your website. I don’t google!
As for the Merchant Marines, I know a few, I’m not sure when they were disarmed but since then our Merchant Marines and other American Flagged ships have been targeted. So are you working towards re-arming our Merchant Fleet? During WWII our Merchant marines had deck guns and other weapons to protect them. Laws just don’t work on the high seas, guns do!
There’s nothing wrong with running against another Republican. There’s nothing wrong with giving voters a choice. There’s nothing wrong with comparing policy or criticizing them when they make mistakes. It’s the personal attacks that Reagan was talking about – “speaking ill.” I don’t speak ill of my fellow Republicans in public, regardless of where along the spectrum they are. That was the point Reagan made, and that’s what I was talking about.
If you don’t like what Shaun wrote, that’s fine. Treating him like a child, calling him condescending while being condescending yourself – that’s the speaking ill I was referring to.
Our ships are targeted because they’re in the Gulf, delivering food aid and other cargoes for the government. The crews on our vessels aren’t armed, haven’t been armed for decades, and don’t want to be armed. They want to do their jobs sailing the vessels, not repelling boarders. That’s why our companies pay out the nose for private armed security teams on our ships when they’re transiting the Gulf of Aden and other pirate infested areas. I was advocating yesterday for changes in the rules of engagement so that my guys can feel free to defend themselves against pirates without the risk of getting sued for it when they do.
You’re right – when the ships are armed, the pirates go after other targets. But that won’t last forever. That’s why we’re trying to resolve this issue now, before things get worse. If you want to help, head on over to http://www.saveourseafarers.org and tell Obama to get on this now.
Brian, I do like to discuss issues, but you are defending Shaun a person that doesn’t follow your own advise. No I don’t like how he writes; acting like he is better than everyone else. I was giving him a taste of his own medicine! See my first post on this thread, I quoted Shaun. When Shaun stops acting like he is better then a newbie; stops attacking fellow Republicans; and stops attacking the Tea Party and twisting facts, I’ll discuss issues with him. For instance the squirrel chewing on the gas line that’s truth.
Oh btw I said “Incumbent republican” and Ronald Reagan spoke a number of ills at Gerald Ford, and nearly won in 1976. Ronald Reagan had class, but he also spoke truths! He called the Soviet Union an evil empire, within 7 years he was making friends with Gorbachev, a few years later the Berlin Wall was tumbling down and so too the Soviet Union. Reagan had a way of telling truths, that is why he is considered the “Great Communicator”
As for the Merchant Marines, if you bought guns once they could be stored below for many, many trips through dangerous waters. Each sailor could be drilled while out at sea, it’s a huge shooting range out there on the open blue; a couple hundred rounds per sailor per year for training. Heck of a lot cheaper than paying for another crew that is armed.
Don’t be so quick to jump to conclusions Brian. I’m a dues paying member of my local unit. The only reason I’ve fought so hard against the establishment is because as an excited conservative when I moved to VA I was told to piss off by them. We threw them out of leadership here and we couldn’t be happier with the results. I don’t know about the other contributors other than one who is a member too.
“If you think you can know a man because you googled his bio, you are doing both yourself and him a disservice”
Funny, did you tell that to Shaun when he decided to pass “google Judgement” on Kurt?
I too have been a dues paying member of the Republican Party, a true Reagan Republican! Both President Bush’s are not Reagan Republicans. Between the two, the elder G.H.W. Bush was closer, his Son gave birth to TSA, HSA, and signed the medicare drug program, basically ignoring the true problems with drugs and health care.
When the rubber meets the road, the “republicans” show their true colors and start working with the democrats to attack Tea Partiers. It happens here locally, it happened in NY23, it happened in Delaware and many other places across the states. Establishment twits are real quick to throw out the 11th commandment, but they are also the first to disregard it when a primary candidate is “too conservative”. It is real hard for a Tea Party candidate to win in the general when the Republican Party threw them under the bus during the primary.
It makes no sense for us to run hard right candidates in places where they can’t win a general election. I believe in the Buckley Rule – run the most conservative candidate who can actually win. In NY-23, Scozzafava could have won that seat. Instead, Hoffman lost, and Owens was able to win the special and he even survived the 2010 wave election. That’s a seat we could have had control over and we lost it because of this establishment vs. Tea Party nonsense.
Same thing in Delaware. Castle could have won that seat. Same thing in Nevada. Thank God Murkowski won in Alaska. We were within striking distance of winning back the Senate but we lost it because we chose weaker candidates who couldn’t win a general election.
I would never support running Olympia Snowe in Texas, or Susan Collins in Utah. But we need them both in Maine. I know you guys care more about ideology than winning races, and that’s one area where we’re simply going to have to agree to disagree, but the facts are the facts. It would be much easier for us to cut spending, hold the White House accountable, and create jobs if we had the Senate too. And we lost it because we didn’t run candidates who could win.
I would agree we need to run candidates that can win…but not at the expense of our principles. Castle and Scozzafava were nothing more than democrats running as republicans.
We’ve heard this mantra since the 70′s. It wasn’t true then and isn’t true now.
Bob McDonnell won in VA by running as a conservative. People perceived him to be far right. The left portrayed him as far right. Soon as he got in office he moderated that tone a bit. Not a lot but too much for my liking at times.
Abortion: he could have shut down most of the clinics in VA by just enforcing health code laws already on the books.
Agenda 21: The Gov signed onto a bunch of “sustainable development” leftist trash his first year in office.
On the conservative side:
Signed Restaurant concealed carry (though that was pushed through by the work of VCDL)
Those are my 3 hot buttons. So I guess 1 out of 3 is supposed to make me happy? Would it be better with deeds? Not short term. But VA and the nation have larger problems facing us that will extend to the next 30 to 100 years. We MUST get control of things. People like Castle and Scozzafava would have been worthless and a thorn in the side of the GOP.
My point is that if Bob McDonnell can run as a conservative then moderate. Why can’t a conservative run as a moderate in places like you mentioned and then move to the right once in office?
Everyone’s principles are different. Yours are different than mine, but we’re still in the same political party. Castle and Scozzafava may have been moderates, but they voted the right way when it came to choosing who would be Majority Leader in the Senate and Speaker in the House and that’s important.
I don’t think McDonnell ran any differently than how he’s governed. At least, he certainly didn’t run differently in Northern Virginia than he’s governed. He ran on jobs and that’s what he’s been focused on.
I’m sorry that he’s not done what you wanted in terms of your hot button issues, but if you honestly think that Deeds would have been better even in the long term, I don’t know what to tell you.
I agree that we must get control of things but we can’t get control of things when we aren’t in control of the gavels. Even at worst – if they voted with the Democrats on everything – they still would have counted on our side for control of Congress.
The Buckley Rule? I like the “Reagan Rule” myself, stand with the truth! Don’t blend in with the democrats, be bold. Stand with “Bold Colors” to contrast from the democrats. John McCain followed the Buckley Rule, had he been bold and declared to the American People that rewarding failures was wrong and Congress was wrong! IMO he would be President today. Since he blended in with the establishment, well he still is a Senator.
We saw how the republican establishment in Delaware treated the Peoples choice! Castle wouldn’t have taken enough votes in a state that votes 2:1 democrat.
Larry, Castle would have won in a landslide. He never won with less than 55% of the vote, and it was usually more like 60%. And he was the only member of Congress from Delaware, so the electorate was exactly the same. Had he won the nomination, there is no question that he would have been elected.
McCain wasn’t going to win regardless of what he did. We could have run Reagan against Obama and Obama would have won. It was simply his time. McCain was a bad candidate, but even if he’d been the best, it wouldn’t have helped.
“Larry, Castle would have won in a landslide. He never won with less than 55% of the vote, and it was usually more like 60%. And he was the only member of Congress from Delaware, so the electorate was exactly the same. Had he won the nomination, there is no question that he would have been elected”
Great, so you just helped a socialist get elected by allowing him to run as an (R) with the support of the RNC… now you have another Joseph Cao.
LANDSLIDE = GOOD!!! We want to elect people pleasers, not principled leaders!
“It makes no sense for us to run hard right candidates in places where they can’t win a general election.”
It also makes no sense to attack your own candidate, what happened to your beloved “11th commandment”? You limp wrists would think running against Obamacare is “hard right”.
“I believe in the Buckley Rule – run the most conservative candidate who can actually win. In NY-23, Scozzafava could have won that seat.”
You believe in the Arlen Specter Rule – Run anybody who can win, regardless of weather they vote for constitutional thing, have any principle at all or are going to stab you in the back and switch parties.
Instead, Hoffman lost, and Owens was able to win the special and he even survived the 2010 wave election. Hoffman lost because the establishment supported what was in fact a democrat. When you have to delude your self into thinking that losing is winning, you my friend are completely screwed up and totally ready to be an “Inside the Beltway” guy.
“That’s a seat we could have had control over and we lost it because of this establishment vs. Tea Party nonsense.”
“Had control over?” Man you have lost it… She would have voted with the Democrats ALL THE TIME. What good does it do to have more (R)s than (D)s if the (D)s have more votes on their side? Oh yeah, I forget you establishment types are all about getting chairs and indulging yourself in power.
“Same thing in Delaware. Castle could have won that seat. Same thing in Nevada. Thank God Murkowski won in Alaska.”
Castle would have won, voted for Obamacare and everyother liberal trainwreck proposed, YEAH! THAT WOULD BE GREAT! Same thing in Nevada? Really? Now you have a great magic crystal ball, I am guessing you had polling that showed Angle losing and somebody else winning? You have no idea why Angle lost, do you? And yeah, Thank God that we had an unprincipled hag win Alaska. What would we do without another fickle politician that we have to worry about her flipping when the wind blows? You take great comfort in very strange things.
” We were within striking distance of winning back the Senate but we lost it because we chose weaker candidates who couldn’t win a general election. ”
Perhaps you are forgetting the part where the Republican party party pulled the rug out from everyone of these candidates before they even got started in the general. Everyone of these, they refused to support them until they had no other choice. “11th commandment”? When? Where?
“I would never support running Olympia Snowe in Texas, or Susan Collins in Utah. But we need them both in Maine.”
Yeah, we need them there so we can get commitee chairs and then not do a damn thing with them. You are compromised people compromising with people who have no honor or integrity so you have lost before you have even gotten started.
” I know you guys care more about ideology than winning races, and that’s one area where we’re simply going to have to agree to disagree, but the facts are the facts.”
We care about winning so that we can restore the constitution and liberty. You care about winning for the sake of winning and then legislating so you can win in the future. That is what the Republican Party has been doing the last 60 years… look where it has gotten us. And now the people start getting involved and you want to say… “Stand back, let US take care of this… WE’VE got EXPERIENCE… WE’VE been IN THE TRENCHES”. Fat lot of good that has done us. All your compromising ways have gotten us mountains of debt and an almost completed socialist system… yeah, the facts are the facts.
“It would be much easier for us to cut spending, hold the White House accountable, and create jobs if we had the Senate too.”
Who would cut spending? Scozzafava? Snowe? Castle? Murkowski? You see, you won only to lose later on the floor because you choose to surround yourself with chameleons and backstabbing, unprincipled fools.
“And we lost it because we didn’t run candidates who could win.”
We lost because we didn’t support establishment candidates that won the primaries. We won because people like YOU wanted people like McCain… LOSERS, and you didn’t get them so you cried and threw a fit and didn’t support the primary winners.
MNR, if you can’t see why it’s more important to have more Rs and Ds, even if some of those Rs vote often with the Democrats, I don’t know what to tell you. Go read a little bit about how power works in the House of Representatives and the Senate. If we are in control, we get to make the vast majority of the decisions. The leadership won’t be the squishy guys you can’t stand. Mitch McConnell is no liberal. John Boehner is no liberal. With them in the drivers seat, most of the bad stuff that moderates vote for will never see the light of day. We would control whether those bills were even called for a vote.
That’s why it’s important that we win every seat we can, even if it means someone isn’t a true red Republican who will vote with Ron Paul every time.
As for the rest of what you wrote, don’t put words in my mouth. I was a lukewarm McCain supporter and he wasn’t my choice in the primary. You can talk all you want about winning to restore the constitution and liberty, but you can’t even explain what that means or how to get there. It’s almost impossible to even argue with you because you don’t know enough to know that you don’t know everything.
Anybody who tries to explain things to you is “establishment” or “arrogant” and you write us off. But hey, that’s your prerogative. You can sit around, talking about how the rest of us are just a bunch of beltway insiders, while the Democrats win election after election and continue running the country off a cliff. But at least we’ll know we kept them RINOs out.
That should read “Rs than Ds.”
I don’t know I’m bothering to correct that, though, since you’ll ignore it anyway.
I do tend to ignore typos, as they are distracting and take away from one’s message. I am not one to insult people for having misspelled words or a “meandering message”.
I appreciate that and I’m glad I read you right in that regard.
Brian, I was serious when I said nice resume. You have seen the system! We have to change the System! All these taxes, all the government programs. Before 2006 we had R’s in both houses they help create bigger Government, NOW we need true Reagan Republicans to change the system where A’s are more important than R’s and D’s! As our President always says; to be clear, A’s equals Americans. It was R’s that gave us TSA, HSA, and other big government programs. We are 14 trillions in debt and counting, the Federal Reserve is buying our debt, we are heading for a crash. Now we have three wars we are in; Marines are being deployed to Libya while NATO takes over, hmm. We are going to have to cut government, Rand Paul has a budget, I heard the hightlights of it and like what I heard.
1st we had kindergarden, then Head Start, 20 years later; No child left behind! What happen? (George Carlin) Big Government is what happen.
Gang of 14 ring a bell? McCain Feingold? Even when we win and have the Senate, foolishness as you are describing will lead us to losing. But at least we would have people “in the trenches”.
“MNR, if you can’t see why it’s more important to have more Rs and Ds, even if some of those Rs vote often with the Democrats, I don’t know what to tell you.”
The end result is what is important. If we do it your way, we have a slower demise than with the democrats in power… YIPEE!!!
“Go read a little bit about how power works in the House of Representatives and the Senate.”
More condescension from Mr. Centrist. We have seen how power works in the House and Senate. When the Dems are in control, we lose. When the Repubs are in control, we lose a little less. Why? Because we elect unprinciple people who are hell bent on compromising so they can be the star of the day and get on Meet the Press.
“If we are in control, we get to make the vast majority of the decisions.”
And we have already seen how this goes… (R)s win, people lose.
“The leadership won’t be the squishy guys you can’t stand. Mitch McConnell is no liberal. John Boehner is no liberal. With them in the drivers seat, most of the bad stuff that moderates vote for will never see the light of day. We would control whether those bills were even called for a vote.”
And yet we will somehow still end up with bills like NCLB, more TSAs, more HSAs and more talk of “comprehensive immigration reform”. We were told these same things about Trent Lott and Bill Frist… they are men of character, they get things done, they are REALLY conservative… right. How’s that workin out for us?
“That’s why it’s important that we win every seat we can, even if it means someone isn’t a true red Republican who will vote with Ron Paul every time.”
Again, what good does it do to control what bills come to the floor IF YOU CAN’T PASS THEM??? I know people like to be on a winning team but… sheeesh, what a mind-job you are doing on yourself. That is what the Democrats understand that you don’t. It’s votes that count, not seats. If you can’t pass anything, your majority is worthless… at best you have just stalled the liberal onslaught for a short time.
“As for the rest of what you wrote, don’t put words in my mouth. I was a lukewarm McCain supporter and he wasn’t my choice in the primary.”
I am sure… your choice was probably someone a little more fickle… someone more “electable”, someone who the masses could “identify with”… someone more like… Obama. Yeah, if Obama put an elephant suit on and ran with an (R) behind his name, you would be all hot and bothered to go vote for him. After all… “it WAS His time”… rofl, you make me sick.
“You can talk all you want about winning to restore the constitution and liberty, but you can’t even explain what that means or how to get there.”
Nor would you listen. You want to do it the “in the trenches” way. It must be soooo hard to converse with the little people. Poor insignificant wretches… they have no idea how little they understand or how little impact they have.
“It’s almost impossible to even argue with you because you don’t know enough to know that you don’t know everything.”
As it is impossible to argue with one who knows everything, because he has “been in the trenches”, “fighting” and “getting his hands dirty”.
“Anybody who tries to explain things to you is “establishment” or “arrogant” and you write us off.”
And here in lies the problem… You being the cocky, concieted, god’s gift, erudite, wise and wonderful messenger to the masses, have come to lowly me, a serf, to “EXPLAIN THINGS” – the complex and hard to understand political system we now have. If only I had the knowledge and mental capacity to grasp the difficult lessons you put forth.
You have to admit, you do kind of come off as smug when you try to play coy. You are being nice and defending your friend, yet at the same time, you throw out insults, admonish people for “googling” when that is exactly what your friend did. You come on here telling us that your way works, your tired old retread republican approach of playing “Mr. Centrist” so that everybody loves you. You are a fence sitter. You are “lukewarm” and we all know what God says about those who are lukewarm.
“But hey, that’s your prerogative. You can sit around, talking about how the rest of us are just a bunch of beltway insiders, while the Democrats win election after election and continue running the country off a cliff.”
Democrats will win elections everytime they can point across the stage and say, “There is Diet Pepsi. Why do you want Diet Pepsi when you can have me, real Pepsi?”
“But at least we’ll know we kept them RINOs out.”
At least we would know that the people on our side, are on our side.